Vicki’s post yesterday on the vote count in Sutton reminds us that sometimes your vote will be the deciding one.
Prior to the election I was concerned about the period of limbo from election day until inauguration day. It’s 11 weeks. That’s a very long time for this virus to wreak more havoc. Now that we have an election impasse that won’t be resolved for the foreseeable future. I am not at all confident Biden will be President, by the way.
There is NO national mitigation plan. And many states have totally given up. It’s the `Swedish’ solution WITHOUT taking into account that this is NOT what Sweden is doing. As the Swedes will remind you, theirs is what they call a “virtual lockdown,” with many mitigation measures in place to stem the spread of the virus. These include strict enforcement of gathering size limits (NOT voluntary – restaurants have been shut down for violations), voluntary protocols with respect to physical distancing and hygiene, working from home strongly recommended and travel strongly discouraged, hybrid learning in higher education, sophisticated and well-coordinated contact trace systems, and isolation of at-risk populations.
In the U.S., I fear the capacity issues like the ones hospital systems are facing in El Paso, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, and more places in the Plains, Midwest, and Mountain states, will exacerbate. We’re at 1,000 deaths/day and that is increasing. If there is a Biden Administration it would not all magically disappear. In fact, given our federal system there isn’t a lot Biden could do directly. But, at least there would be consistent messaging, a plan that would involve public health officials rather than charlatans (Atlas) and non-experts (Pence), coordination with states especially pertaining to reopening plans (there needs to be consistency), and an emphasis on contact tracing. Also important is Biden’s plan to ensure costs of treatment are paid for by health insurers. Right now, it’s like the wild west out there. That’s morally wrong.
Excellent comment and perfect explanation of what Sweden has and is Doing. Thank you
JPD, I saw your comment on whw and am sending positive thoughts for your daughter and all staff and students at her school. As I’m sure you know, I agree with you.
I absolutely understand wanting kids in school. And in all towns we have an option to have our children full remote. The problem is that The majority of teachers and staff do not have that option.
I also understand that the governor and others do not believe covid spreads in schools. There are articles that support that. There are also articles that do not support that. The truth is that we don’t know. I pray that covid does not spread in schools. My fear, though, is we might find out too late that this is not accurate.
Europe is seeing an uptick in schools. So far, Europe has been a pretty good predictor of what is headed here. Also, more kids are testing positive. I’d think a good portion are getting the virus in schools since this is the first time seeing an increase in the number of positives in kids and it is as schools open.
Just random thoughts and my opinion. It is all new territory and all we can do is try and figure out answers with a virus that is anything but predictable
Thank you for your post, Vicki. It is indeed “new territory.”
Lessons from the Netherlands. The country has seen a 40% decline in new daily cases in the past week after implementing a partial lockdown several weeks ago. Please note, this was NOT a draconian lockdown. All schools remain open and are 100% in-person. No domestic travel restrictions. Museums and libraries remained open until this week (for some reason museums are closed this week). Hair and nail salons remain open. The only three strict measures implemented were: 1. Gathering sizes and limits on numbers of household guests – with hefty fines for violators; 2. Physical distancing – with citations for violations; 3. All bars and restaurants are closed until late November.
Why not try this in Massachusetts, instead of the wobbly measures Baker is implementing. I see construction workers without masks congregating for lunch (groups of 3-8 people within 1-2 feet of one another. Why? And why is that allowed? I see large groups of people in outdoor spaces (granted, that is safer), but also indoor spaces like grocery stores. It appears that there are no limits being enforced on numbers of people in pharmacies, stores, and other indoor spaces. Again, why not? In my building there are several people who have multiple guests over several times a week. At times, weekend parties with 10-20 people. Nothing happens.
If I walk to the public garden and sit on a park bench with an open bottle of beer just enjoying the scene, I will get a citation for sure from the park ranger, and probably a fine. If I try to walk into any store in my neighborhood without a shirt on, they won’t let me in. If I don’t have a seat belt on and an officer sees that, I will be cited or fined. Same if I don’t have a helmet on while riding a motorcycle. What is do darn hard about enforcing reasonable limits during a pandemic?
Just to let you all know I’m a fairly libertarian person. I don’t want an all-intrusive government. But, freedom is always a relative concept. We don’t live in a Hobbesian world, however much some of us want to. There are times of national crisis that call for more government intervention. We saw that during our wars, after 9/11, etc … This is a national crisis. My freedom to do whatever the hell I want could cause another person’s harm. That’s not what libertarians want either. In fact, it’s those externalities that libertarian economists argue are the ONLY valid reasons for government intervention. Well, the externalities are certainly present at this time. And until the contagion is under control the negative externalities of people’s behavior impacting others in harmful ways will persist.
Again excellent. Do you email Baker? I’m not sure it matters but your suggestions are spot on
Perhaps our upcoming “blowtorch” will get people outdoors more again and less time indoors for awhile and bring down transmission of the virus. Of course this would be fairly temporary, at best before “reality” returns on a much more persistent basis.
I also hope that Mayor Walsh doesn’t shutdown the city of Boston again. His drumbeats on that subject get louder every day it seems. Restaurants and other businesses could very well be totally devastated this time around.
It is a tricky call, Philip. How long can they limp along if our numbers continue to go up combined with flu. Do we take a temporary stop gap and enforce it as Joshua has said we do not do or do we stay at this level or worse through winter? I don’t know the answers. I think Walsh has done a better job than baker in some ways. And I’m not a huge fan of Walsh…..or wasn’t. I may well have been wrong.
True. This warm stretch may indeed stem the spread a bit.
Agree that closure of restaurants could be devastating. However, as I mentioned before there are feasible ways of ensuring businesses remain going concerns. Governments can and should fully compensate businesses to ensure they remain viable. I’m more than willing to pay for this with a Covid tax earmarked for small businesses.
One of the least densely populated states in the country is faring very poorly, and its governor simply doesn’t give a damn. No changes in policy. North Dakota had record number of cases (1,540), deaths (29), hospitalizations (366), and test positivity rate 14+%.
Deaths equivalent to 6,000/day for USA equivalent.
What is happening in N Dakota is heart wrenching. I like your plan to reimburse businesses. I would also contribute. We don’t take out much any more but when we do, we make sure to leave a very generous tip. IMO those doing curbside are going an extra mile to keep folks safe
Regarding businesses, you are forgetting Joshua that we have a bickering Congress that won’t provide a stimulus package, so “our” government anyway, is of no help, unlike other nations like Europe.
The main problem with small businesses especially, is that many of their old customers are not returning for various reasons. Another “draconian” type shutdown could wipe them out entirely.
I understand your concern. I wonder if people are not returning because they are hunkering down. We were doing take out at three places we felt comfortable with and did curb side. With the higher numbers, we stopped. A man in the area was doing $100 drawings for local restaurants. I was covering a bunch of them. We need to step up….all of us…..even if it is a few dollars. Same with food pantries. Washington should be doing this and I blame both parties. But we don’t need to wait for them
Me, too. I tip the takeout people well. I try to thank the grocery store clerks every time I shop. It’s not easy for some of them.
Missouri, Oklahoma, Iowa, Indiana, Nebraska, North Dakota and New Mexico reported record high hospitalizations this week.
Clearly the mid-section of the country is dealing with a massive problem at this point in time.
Biden just spoke briefly from Wilmington DE. While quite optimistic, he did not look too good and he has a noticeable “dent” on his forehead. He has tested “negative” for Covid thankfully.
If I heard correctly, Biden-Harris has already set up a “transition team” on their website. Also, POTUS has been able to stop the count in Pennsylvania.
Though I believe Biden will ultimately prevail I’m less optimistic than many. Still believe Trump has a chance to win, whether through ballot counting or courts or a combination of both. Consider that Georgia is unlikely to flip to Biden. Nor will North Carolina. Nevada and Arizona are still very close with a lot of votes to count. Biden holds an edge. But, I don’t trust projected tallies. That’s sort of like trusting a NAM snow total forecast for 3 days from now. Trump still has a sizable lead in Pennsylvania. While Biden is chipping away, it’s taking forever to count, and it appears courts are intervening to stop the tallies and assess validity of ballots. Wisconsin victory for Biden is also contestable with a recount.
Philip, you are right about the small businesses. Even if government were to help out in a massive way through a stimulus bill it would only be a temporary fix. Declining demand due to Covid-19 fears will have a lasting impact.
I’ve written about the transition team as recently as yesterday. My hope as expressed in the article is that we’d have a government of national unity between now and January 20, 2021 to tackle the Covid-19 crisis with both a national public health plan and a proper stimulus bill. But that’s not going to happen.
I’m ranting.
I’m upset with America and a little less proud to be an American … at least right now anyway.The assault on democracy is wicked; Covid is wicked; and diviviness … code for selfishness … is super wicked. When it comes to C-19, where are we with respect to the greater good, common sense, and sense of fellowship? This country was once the envy of most. No more. We need to demonstrate to the world that we are willing to take the necessary steps to handle Covid-19. Yet, we cannot find the will to do it. I’m not happy!
Rant over. I apologize.
It’s okay, we all need to rant sometimes.
I feel the same. See you post above. I had not seen your comment. We can step up in our own areas. We have to step up. I gave up relying on Washington.
See my post above
Vicki, I have communicated with Governor Baker’s office, as well as other governors in the country.
Very nice. I am not surprised. I keep saying I have to familiarize myself with the gov of MD. I’m hearing positives about him.
America First means uniting for the sake of facing the challenges that exist with respect to Covid-19 and the economic recession we’re suffering from.
I listened to Biden today who urged Americans to be patient and let our process work. I listened to as much as I could stomach from trump tonight whose lies are palpable. I had listened to gore the other day…graciousness. And the Bushes ….agree with them or no…..pure grace.
America is part of a global community. We cannot stand alone; but no matter how we stand, we absolutely have to do it with a moral compass that shines bright
When Fox News cuts away from somebody they talk-up every day, what does that say? DT should watch some of those clips posted above. But he would probably feel like somehow he’s better than that too…
C-19 for 11-6 is ready.
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Your no-hype southeastern New England weather blog!
Vicki’s post yesterday on the vote count in Sutton reminds us that sometimes your vote will be the deciding one.
Prior to the election I was concerned about the period of limbo from election day until inauguration day. It’s 11 weeks. That’s a very long time for this virus to wreak more havoc. Now that we have an election impasse that won’t be resolved for the foreseeable future. I am not at all confident Biden will be President, by the way.
There is NO national mitigation plan. And many states have totally given up. It’s the `Swedish’ solution WITHOUT taking into account that this is NOT what Sweden is doing. As the Swedes will remind you, theirs is what they call a “virtual lockdown,” with many mitigation measures in place to stem the spread of the virus. These include strict enforcement of gathering size limits (NOT voluntary – restaurants have been shut down for violations), voluntary protocols with respect to physical distancing and hygiene, working from home strongly recommended and travel strongly discouraged, hybrid learning in higher education, sophisticated and well-coordinated contact trace systems, and isolation of at-risk populations.
In the U.S., I fear the capacity issues like the ones hospital systems are facing in El Paso, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, and more places in the Plains, Midwest, and Mountain states, will exacerbate. We’re at 1,000 deaths/day and that is increasing. If there is a Biden Administration it would not all magically disappear. In fact, given our federal system there isn’t a lot Biden could do directly. But, at least there would be consistent messaging, a plan that would involve public health officials rather than charlatans (Atlas) and non-experts (Pence), coordination with states especially pertaining to reopening plans (there needs to be consistency), and an emphasis on contact tracing. Also important is Biden’s plan to ensure costs of treatment are paid for by health insurers. Right now, it’s like the wild west out there. That’s morally wrong.
Excellent comment and perfect explanation of what Sweden has and is Doing. Thank you
JPD, I saw your comment on whw and am sending positive thoughts for your daughter and all staff and students at her school. As I’m sure you know, I agree with you.
I absolutely understand wanting kids in school. And in all towns we have an option to have our children full remote. The problem is that The majority of teachers and staff do not have that option.
I also understand that the governor and others do not believe covid spreads in schools. There are articles that support that. There are also articles that do not support that. The truth is that we don’t know. I pray that covid does not spread in schools. My fear, though, is we might find out too late that this is not accurate.
Europe is seeing an uptick in schools. So far, Europe has been a pretty good predictor of what is headed here. Also, more kids are testing positive. I’d think a good portion are getting the virus in schools since this is the first time seeing an increase in the number of positives in kids and it is as schools open.
Just random thoughts and my opinion. It is all new territory and all we can do is try and figure out answers with a virus that is anything but predictable
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-is-creeping-into-europes-schools-11602581400
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/more-61-000-children-got-covid-19-last-week-record-n1245851
Thank you for your post, Vicki. It is indeed “new territory.”
Lessons from the Netherlands. The country has seen a 40% decline in new daily cases in the past week after implementing a partial lockdown several weeks ago. Please note, this was NOT a draconian lockdown. All schools remain open and are 100% in-person. No domestic travel restrictions. Museums and libraries remained open until this week (for some reason museums are closed this week). Hair and nail salons remain open. The only three strict measures implemented were: 1. Gathering sizes and limits on numbers of household guests – with hefty fines for violators; 2. Physical distancing – with citations for violations; 3. All bars and restaurants are closed until late November.
Why not try this in Massachusetts, instead of the wobbly measures Baker is implementing. I see construction workers without masks congregating for lunch (groups of 3-8 people within 1-2 feet of one another. Why? And why is that allowed? I see large groups of people in outdoor spaces (granted, that is safer), but also indoor spaces like grocery stores. It appears that there are no limits being enforced on numbers of people in pharmacies, stores, and other indoor spaces. Again, why not? In my building there are several people who have multiple guests over several times a week. At times, weekend parties with 10-20 people. Nothing happens.
If I walk to the public garden and sit on a park bench with an open bottle of beer just enjoying the scene, I will get a citation for sure from the park ranger, and probably a fine. If I try to walk into any store in my neighborhood without a shirt on, they won’t let me in. If I don’t have a seat belt on and an officer sees that, I will be cited or fined. Same if I don’t have a helmet on while riding a motorcycle. What is do darn hard about enforcing reasonable limits during a pandemic?
Just to let you all know I’m a fairly libertarian person. I don’t want an all-intrusive government. But, freedom is always a relative concept. We don’t live in a Hobbesian world, however much some of us want to. There are times of national crisis that call for more government intervention. We saw that during our wars, after 9/11, etc … This is a national crisis. My freedom to do whatever the hell I want could cause another person’s harm. That’s not what libertarians want either. In fact, it’s those externalities that libertarian economists argue are the ONLY valid reasons for government intervention. Well, the externalities are certainly present at this time. And until the contagion is under control the negative externalities of people’s behavior impacting others in harmful ways will persist.
Again excellent. Do you email Baker? I’m not sure it matters but your suggestions are spot on
Perhaps our upcoming “blowtorch” will get people outdoors more again and less time indoors for awhile and bring down transmission of the virus. Of course this would be fairly temporary, at best before “reality” returns on a much more persistent basis.
I also hope that Mayor Walsh doesn’t shutdown the city of Boston again. His drumbeats on that subject get louder every day it seems. Restaurants and other businesses could very well be totally devastated this time around.
It is a tricky call, Philip. How long can they limp along if our numbers continue to go up combined with flu. Do we take a temporary stop gap and enforce it as Joshua has said we do not do or do we stay at this level or worse through winter? I don’t know the answers. I think Walsh has done a better job than baker in some ways. And I’m not a huge fan of Walsh…..or wasn’t. I may well have been wrong.
True. This warm stretch may indeed stem the spread a bit.
Agree that closure of restaurants could be devastating. However, as I mentioned before there are feasible ways of ensuring businesses remain going concerns. Governments can and should fully compensate businesses to ensure they remain viable. I’m more than willing to pay for this with a Covid tax earmarked for small businesses.
One of the least densely populated states in the country is faring very poorly, and its governor simply doesn’t give a damn. No changes in policy. North Dakota had record number of cases (1,540), deaths (29), hospitalizations (366), and test positivity rate 14+%.
Deaths equivalent to 6,000/day for USA equivalent.
What is happening in N Dakota is heart wrenching. I like your plan to reimburse businesses. I would also contribute. We don’t take out much any more but when we do, we make sure to leave a very generous tip. IMO those doing curbside are going an extra mile to keep folks safe
Regarding businesses, you are forgetting Joshua that we have a bickering Congress that won’t provide a stimulus package, so “our” government anyway, is of no help, unlike other nations like Europe.
The main problem with small businesses especially, is that many of their old customers are not returning for various reasons. Another “draconian” type shutdown could wipe them out entirely.
I understand your concern. I wonder if people are not returning because they are hunkering down. We were doing take out at three places we felt comfortable with and did curb side. With the higher numbers, we stopped. A man in the area was doing $100 drawings for local restaurants. I was covering a bunch of them. We need to step up….all of us…..even if it is a few dollars. Same with food pantries. Washington should be doing this and I blame both parties. But we don’t need to wait for them
Me, too. I tip the takeout people well. I try to thank the grocery store clerks every time I shop. It’s not easy for some of them.
Missouri, Oklahoma, Iowa, Indiana, Nebraska, North Dakota and New Mexico reported record high hospitalizations this week.
Clearly the mid-section of the country is dealing with a massive problem at this point in time.
Biden just spoke briefly from Wilmington DE. While quite optimistic, he did not look too good and he has a noticeable “dent” on his forehead. He has tested “negative” for Covid thankfully.
If I heard correctly, Biden-Harris has already set up a “transition team” on their website. Also, POTUS has been able to stop the count in Pennsylvania.
Though I believe Biden will ultimately prevail I’m less optimistic than many. Still believe Trump has a chance to win, whether through ballot counting or courts or a combination of both. Consider that Georgia is unlikely to flip to Biden. Nor will North Carolina. Nevada and Arizona are still very close with a lot of votes to count. Biden holds an edge. But, I don’t trust projected tallies. That’s sort of like trusting a NAM snow total forecast for 3 days from now. Trump still has a sizable lead in Pennsylvania. While Biden is chipping away, it’s taking forever to count, and it appears courts are intervening to stop the tallies and assess validity of ballots. Wisconsin victory for Biden is also contestable with a recount.
Philip, you are right about the small businesses. Even if government were to help out in a massive way through a stimulus bill it would only be a temporary fix. Declining demand due to Covid-19 fears will have a lasting impact.
I’ve written about the transition team as recently as yesterday. My hope as expressed in the article is that we’d have a government of national unity between now and January 20, 2021 to tackle the Covid-19 crisis with both a national public health plan and a proper stimulus bill. But that’s not going to happen.
I’m ranting.
I’m upset with America and a little less proud to be an American … at least right now anyway.The assault on democracy is wicked; Covid is wicked; and diviviness … code for selfishness … is super wicked. When it comes to C-19, where are we with respect to the greater good, common sense, and sense of fellowship? This country was once the envy of most. No more. We need to demonstrate to the world that we are willing to take the necessary steps to handle Covid-19. Yet, we cannot find the will to do it. I’m not happy!
Rant over. I apologize.
It’s okay, we all need to rant sometimes.
I feel the same. See you post above. I had not seen your comment. We can step up in our own areas. We have to step up. I gave up relying on Washington.
See my post above
Vicki, I have communicated with Governor Baker’s office, as well as other governors in the country.
Very nice. I am not surprised. I keep saying I have to familiarize myself with the gov of MD. I’m hearing positives about him.
America First means uniting for the sake of facing the challenges that exist with respect to Covid-19 and the economic recession we’re suffering from.
We don’t have that at this point in time.
A different era, and a totally different man. This is from President George Herbert Walker Bush in 1992, conceding to Clinton: https://twitter.com/Reddy/status/1324509686071218179
Al Gore in 2000, after a contentious battle. A wonderful speech, conceding to Bush (junior): https://twitter.com/EmanuelaLocati/status/1324482325766410240
I listened to Biden today who urged Americans to be patient and let our process work. I listened to as much as I could stomach from trump tonight whose lies are palpable. I had listened to gore the other day…graciousness. And the Bushes ….agree with them or no…..pure grace.
America is part of a global community. We cannot stand alone; but no matter how we stand, we absolutely have to do it with a moral compass that shines bright
When Fox News cuts away from somebody they talk-up every day, what does that say? DT should watch some of those clips posted above. But he would probably feel like somehow he’s better than that too…
C-19 for 11-6 is ready.