43 thoughts on “C-19 Chat Post – December 12 2021”

  1. Thanks TK.

    According to Dr. Todd Ellerin, director of infectious disease at South Shore Health, there’s “no prospect” of herd immunity like there was in 1918.

    Now what???

    1. As far as I have read, herd immunity was never reached in 1918. The pandemic began to diminish through the use of distancing and other preventive measures as well as immunization. IMO only worldwide adherence to mitigation strategies is the one thing that may end this…..not that I believe it will ever be ended just as 1918 was not

      Dr Markel gives a really good outline of 1918 in this discussion.

      https://www.webmd.com/coronavirus-in-context/video/howard-markel

  2. The French and the UK get it. If we focus on the daily numbers increasing, why is it never mentioned that MA schools alone now see positives just shy of 1,600/day. If schools are not already, they soon can accurately be considered to be super spreaders. And repeating…..no one seems to notice or far worse care.

    Quote: UK mantra….transmission rates are higher in the schools than community.

    https://twitter.com/docmoschos/status/1469579458537533440?s=21

  3. Omicron is certainly gaining traction. https://twitter.com/VincentRK/status/1470022379866837005/photo/1

    Daughter is still sick. Fever, cough, and continuous fatigue. No alarm symptoms, so that’s good. But, it’s a nasty bug. My ex-wife is slightly concerned. She and I just spoke on the phone. I reassured her that our daughter would be okay, but that it’s always important to monitor. My ex-wife then reminded me that Lisa’s friend Anna – also fully vaccinated – was sick for two weeks and has not been the same since (it’s been two months), and that her niece, Eline, got sick for 10 days two months ago and hasn’t been the same since. Eline is a championship-caliber rower and can no longer do rowing on the indoor machines for more than a few minutes.

    There are some encouraging signs across the heart of Northern Europe that restrictions have had positive impact. I mentioned Austria yesterday. There, a countrywide lockdown for 14 days followed by a narrower lockdown for the unvaccinated has led to plummeting cases and hospitalizations. The Netherlands is also seeing signs of improvement, as are other countries in the region. All have implemented limits, though not a lockdown like Austria.

    1. Heartbreaking for the two ladies you mentioned. I continue to keep your daughter in my prayers. Thank you very much for updating. I know well how your ex-wife and you feel as parents. I am happy that you were able to comfort your ex-wife some

      Was it determined that your daughter has Omicron?

  4. I am truly concerned about what will happen when Omicron hits our schools after the new year. Already, the Upper, vaccinated grades are starting to see an increase in numbers. Prior, the vast majority was lower grades

    1. You know exactly what will happen.
      Virtually every child and every staff member will get infected.
      Hopefully, the fully vaccinated and boosted will have only mild cases.

  5. Omicron will be taking over. Our only hope is that it is truly
    a milder illness and that has yet to be determined.

    With Omicron, not sure social distancing will help. I am reading that it stays airborne for some time. To me, that means you can
    contract it just by being in the same room with an infected person, perhaps even an empty room that was occupied by
    an infected person minutes to hours prior.

  6. Joshua – I hope your daughter heals quickly & thoroughly. I can’t begin to wrap my head around the long term ramifications in our society – both societal and financial – regarding the effects of long covid and possibly the creation of entire new groups of patients with ongoing chronic conditions in multiple forms. I don’t think our current health care system will be able to handle it… we are not great with nebulous chronic health issues to begin with – I speak from direct experience. The cost and uncertainty will be a game changer for thousands I’m afraid.

    1. Agreed. I’ve found that when too many cannot diagnose a cause, they tend to fall back on it possibly being imagined.

      1. When Doctors can’t figure something out or do not understand it, first response is it’s the patient’s head, most especially if the patient is a woman. DIGUSTING!!!!

        1. Yes and the second go to is pharmaceuticals which too often often make the situation worse – not better.

          1. Absolutely on pharmaceuticals. We learned a valuable lesson with Mac. Medical marijuana was literally a Godsend …..and for a man who grew up in the 60s and never touched it.

            1. So glad he was able to find some relief with cannabis. I always found it bewildering that for years opiates and liquid cocaine were available by prescription but thc was not – made no sense to me whatsoever!

        2. Exactly. I also went through that just before covid. And I’ve said before that I am careful to do my due diligence when choosing doctors. They never found a reason. And in the end I gave up and tried acupuncture that a whw friend recommended and it worked

  7. My friend Helen, a nurse in England, had a likely case of COVID in February 2020 before testing was available. She said it was the sickest she’s ever been. Helen is 58 and extremely fit; she runs marathons and half marathons.

    She was vaccinated with Pfizer in the first group, just before the interval between jabs was increased to 12 weeks. She has volunteered for countless extra shifts to give COVID and flu jabs to patients, often working 6-7 days per week.

    She was boosted about as early as was possible several weeks ago about 9 months out from her second jab. She wears a mask everywhere, tests daily, and unfortunately was infected by a friend on a weekend away and tested positive on Friday. She says it’s worse than a bad cold, more like a bad flu. Medical personnel in the UK are given 25 packs of lateral flow tests to take home so that daily testing before coming to work is easy.

    Interestingly, she did a lateral flow test which was negative followed almost immediately by the taking of the sample for the PCR test which was positive.

    We just returned from London right after Thanksgiving. Helen spent several days with us and we traveled all over London on buses and the tube. Mask wearing was very low, but this jumped up dramatically when it was announced that mask wearing would became a requirement just as our visit came to an end.

    I can’t help thinking that you can do everything right and still get sick…

    I’ve just read that two doses of Oxford AstraZeneca provides essentially no protection against Omicron and Pfizer gives about 35% protection. Booster jabs increase these numbers to 71% and 75% respectively. Numbers for Moderna will be available next week I believe. I suspect it will be higher, but how much higher?

    Two jabs of Moderna provided protection against Delta in the 80s, Pfizer in the 40s…

    My sister and brother-in-law’s doctor recommend that they top up their Pfizer jabs with a Moderna booster.

    1. Thank you for your post, Amy.

      One area where the UK is way ahead of other countries, including the US, is boosters. See tweet with graph below. You’ll notice that Germany has already caught up to the US. It only took about 10-14 days to do so, use of massive convention halls (we no longer do this, which is mind-boggling), and a systematic, methodical approach to boosting. Going down the age ladder meticulously. Sending emails, regular mail, and texts to citizens when it’s their turn, and sending repeated reminders along with almost hourly public service announcements on boosters on TV, online, and on the radio. Netherlands is doing this as well. Why we don’t do this, I will never know. Our “let’s throw paint against the wall and see if it sticks” (exhibit A being opening up boosters to everyone >18 long the >65 (most at risk) are taken care of) is failing. And I do blame the Biden Administration for that. Messaging is key, and we basically don’t have any visible messaging. I turn on a football game and I see lots of ads for beers, car insurance, pick-up trucks, etc … but hardly ever a public service announcement. What is the matter with our federal government?

      1. Amy….amazing story. And so very sad. I will definitely keep Helen in my prayers.

        May I ask what a lateral flow test is please?

        My son was given two tests….immediate and PCR. Both were positive. But I don’t know what the first was.

      2. Exactly. I think Biden could be doing oh so much more.
        And the advertising on television is atrocious. It Is like what
        pandemic? I am sick to death of it all. People and officials must have a lot of sand in their ears, nose, throats and eyes and a still neck to boot!

        1. Baker didn’t do us any favors opening up boosters to all. My SIL has been trying to schedule one for weeks.

    2. That’s what my son did. He had 2 doses of Pfizer and boosted with Moderna.

      Hope you friend feels better soon.

      1. I’m trying to get my kids and spouses to have Moderna. They all had Pfeizer. My oldest is really worried about the booster. She was the one who had severe razor like pain at the base of her skull and she has never complained about being ill or any pain.

  8. Vicki, lateral flow tests are rapid antigen tests. As Amy pointed out, a monthly supply is mailed to every UK resident. My daughter and her boyfriend have ample supplies. The US refuses to do this. So, we’re stuck paying exorbitant – well, extortionary – prices for rapid antigen tests which we may (if we’re lucky) get reimbursed through our insurers if we have insurance. I know that my insurer, Tufts Health Plan, will NOT reimburse the rapid tests I bought last week. So, once again our executive branch is full of rhetoric and promises but little action.

    Agree with Dr. Reiner on the lack of a sense of urgency on the part of the Biden Administration. It’s palpable. https://twitter.com/Porter_Anderson/status/1470030997655900165

    1. I thought that was the case but wasn’t sure. Thank you. Do you know if they are the binaxNOW. Or even which ones are considered most reliable?

      I listened to an NPR program yesterday re 7 free tests sent to homes weekly so testing can be done before going to work, etc.

      Brilliant common sense. Something we seem to lack in this country.

  9. I saw a comment in framingham schools asking folks to write to DESE to ask it to send the personnel they promised to perform test and stay. Turns out vaccinated and exposed kids are no longer tested but do remain in school. Unvaccinated are tested and positives quarantine at home.

    I’ve been saying for a couple of weeks that HS numbers are increasing. Now we know why.

    Framingham’s numbers are With numbers students/staff…22/4 week ending 11/18, 64/11 week ending 12/2, 71/11 week ending 11/9

    I’m now hearing framingham is not alone.

  10. The UK just announced that boosters are open to everyone 18+ three months after their second jab. This is with the explicit aim to boost everyone by the end of December(!)

    Helen tells me they are boosting with Pfizer only. She’s received training in giving Moderna but hasn’t seen any of it yet.

    Both BioNTech and Moderna are working on Omicron specific jabs. A friend who works at Moderna told me they’ve made new versions of the vaccine for every variant so far but they haven’t been needed.

  11. And here’s the really sad story. See tweet below. Pathetic. We’re 67th now on the list of nations in terms of 2-dose vaccinations. So, forget about boosters, we can’t even get the population to be fully vaccinated. Yes, I certainly ascribe much of the blame to the anti-vaxx crowd. But, you’ve got to assign some blame to the Biden Administration. Half-assed vaccination campaigns (“paint against the wall” method) and messaging which is often invisible to those who aren’t following what CDC is saying, My preference would be paid spots during football games and prime time, graphically displaying hospital beds filled with mostly unvaccinated folks who are deathly ill; this could convince some. https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1470155119182237696

  12. On Omicron severity a lot is speculation at this point. I’m glad the UK chief medical officer pointed this out, and also indicated that hospitalizations involving patients with Omicron are occurring and will “increase rapidly.” See tweet below. At least the UK has a plan, which includes a massive booster campaign AND some mitigation measures (including possible closure of ALL schools at least one week before Christmas). We (US) do not have a plan. Well, I guess that’s harsh. But, we have a half-baked, hesitant plan that will not work as currently constituted, and it involves virtually no mitigation. https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1470076735408549892

    1. When no one seems the least bit concerned about schools, I have no idea how any plan can work. I pretty much ready to give up

  13. A apologize for the fast and furious posts. But, I believe this speech by PM Boris Johnson is an important one, and is completely missing from OUR approach. See tweet below. Biden reassures, presents half measures, and tells us not to panic. Okay, but where the f*&k is the plan, sir? Johnson, on the other hand – I am not a fan of his, by the way – is coherent and articulate, has a plan, sees this as an national emergency, and doesn’t mince words. https://twitter.com/PolitiekRealist/status/1470161117389504512

    1. He speaks with passion. We need that. But does he face the horrific pushback Biden faces. Although, no matter how much pushback there is, Biden needs to get in front of the camera frequently. I believe our governors do as well.

      And we need to be able to actually make an appointment for the vaccine.

      1. Yes. Leave it to the British to speak in concise terms and eloquently. Johnson may be a jerk in some respects, but he is no dummy. He’s a learned person, who’s certainly dealt with plenty of push back over the years, and some it from self-inflicted wounds. He was (perhaps is) a notorious womanizer, can be offensive in his language, and is full of himself. But, he’s a very effective politician. In spite of all the mistakes made with respect to Covid-19, he has periodically sensed the urgency of the emergency at hand. Much more than Trump, but also more than Biden. Perhaps this is because he had a near-death experience with Covid-19. I don’t know.

        As far as opposition to his policies, he’s got Labour who want to do more, and he’s got some back bencher Tories who want to do less. There isn’t, however, a sizable anti-vaxx group within the party. In fact, it’s puny. And, there’s unanimous support for vaccine mandates in certain sectors, such as healthcare, nursing homes, and even in parliament.

        Biden plays it too defensively, in my view. He’s obviously not going to change certain people’s minds. But, he’s got to be more forceful. Tepid responses don’t work.

        1. I have always been fascinated by the British. Macs sister lived in London for years when flying Pan Am international and mac lived there doe a while also. I heard many stories.

          I agree Biden has struggled. I can’t help think he has a very good reason to be defensive. He is constantly under attack for reasons very much out of his control. The media also has for some odd reason barely mentioned, if at at all, any of his accomplishments

          And I know that does not excuse his tepid covid response. Frankly, in my opinion, with the horrendous messes he was left, covid rises above all. And yet sadly not one can be left in the back burner.

          Not sure that makes sense but it is a hell of a mess. It is the reason I always felt Colin Powell never ran even though I believe he would have made an excellent president. You have to be a fool to want the job …now more than ever

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