68 thoughts on “C-19 Chat Post – December 17 2021”
Thanks TK.
The CDC is highly recommending the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines as opposed to the J&J vaccine which has been known to cause major blood clots.
R is now under 1 in Germany, the Netherlands, and Austria. Rather dramatic case decline this week. Hospitalizations are decreasing steadily, too. Even deaths are decreasing slightly. All three nations implemented a strict set of NPI: Mask mandates in all indoor spaces, no spectators at sporting events, limits on gatherings (4 visitor maximum) in homes, distancing and customer number limits in stores, schools closed early for the Christmas break, and restaurant, bar, and indoor venue closures in the evening/night.
Vaccines alone just aren’t going to cut it. I’m not in favor of harsh lockdowns, but even if we did half of what they’ve done we’d be in a better place. But, we haven’t and won’t.
The Dutch policy is a two-pronged `attack:’ NPIs through mid January, and at the same time boost systematically at mass vaccination sites going down the age ladder. They’re now at the birth years 1960 through 1964. They intend to complete the booster program (intended for adults >35; others must be in risk groups) by mid January. Notably, they are not mass vaccinating the 5 to 16 group. Children can get vaccinated, but there’s no push to do so. Vaccinations and boosters for adults; different story. While there is NO vaccine mandate anywhere in Holland, except for the healthcare sector, the government does have an effective system for urging people to get vaccinated or boosted: A steady diet of emails, texts, phone calls, and regular mail that come from the GGD (public health authority) AND your local GP/PCP. The GGD coordinates with GPs/PCPs. Note, the Dutch do NOT allow financial incentives to get vaccinated. No prizes, no lotteries, etc … This is considered unethical.
Excellent comments, Joshua, showing once again that not only are there are steps to take that work, but the difference between the mindset here and sadly most other countries outside of the US. This is not new. Mac’s mom was one of the most gracious people I had the pleasure to know. Because of that, it surprised me when she said more than once that no matter the country in which they were living or just visiting, it was sadly too easy to identify folks from this country….her country.
Knowing how poorly we are doing as a country should be a wake up call. But we double down. As I write, it occurs to me to rethink putting all blame on our leaders. First and foremost, we elected them. Secondly, no matted the steps we have in place, I wonder how many would respect the need for them.
Good morning,
The number of new cases in Massachusetts is most alarming.
Yesterday there were 5,883 new cases reported with another
808 “probable” cases.
This country has had an abysmal response to covid!!!!!!
As you know, I absolutely agree. Of the 5,000ish ~1600 are children.
Given what you’ve posted about your workplace “standards” I’m not surprised JPD. Stay safe at work!
Why they don’t require the employees to be vaccinated is a head scratcher to say the least.
They are still having a holiday luncheon at the office today.
I will be attending virtually.
Big in person meeting scheduled for next week.
This will be a show down, because I will NOT be attending.
We shall see what happens.
This meeting SHOULD be virtual(!)@(#&!(@#)(!@&#()*
While what I believe may not be the view of many, I’ve truly stopped caring. Imo You are 100 perfect in the right JPD.
If you can attend the luncheon virtually, why not the meeting?
I love it. Perfect question, Philip.
Because the people who won’t vaccinate also aren’t likely to respond to a mandate.
I don’t think the mandate solves the problem of getting all vaccinated and on-time.
I’m not sure what will, other than the Delta and Omricon causing people’s deaths and that swaying the unvaccinated.
Joshua, why the blood clots from the J&J vaccine compared to the Pfizer and Moderna? I have to assume that the chemicals must be remarkably different from the other two?
Did I hear correctly that some deaths have been attributed directly to the J&J vaccine amongst those who received it?
Yes. The J&J vaccine is a so-called viral vector vaccine. It’s based on a totally different platform than mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).
UK records record numbers of cases for the 3rd straight day. Hospitals in the London area, in particular, are seeing big increases in Covid-19 patients.
Premier League (soccer) in Britain is considering postponing ALL games until some time in January. Monday decision by club owners and league officials is forthcoming.
Latest data from Denmark and London – Imperial College – suggest Omicron may not be milder than Delta in terms of severity. Nothing is certain at this point in time. My hope is still that it’s less severe, but hope isn’t evidence-based.
Overall, the picture isn’t pretty.
As far as holiday luncheons, office parties, and the like, my question is why now.
The Bruins game with Montreal will be played without fans. Canada isn’t messing around with the new variant. I believe their borders to the U.S. may eventually be closed, if not already.
I’m not sure we regressed. We did better in 2020. Relaxing mitigation policies was a folly. We are now paying the price
I say we have regressed. Indoor mask mandates have returned to much of the nation, not to mention hospitals are becoming overwhelmed again.
I understand. Put another way. We have regressed to 2020 mandates because we never should have removed them. We got cocky in the belief that vaccines were the one and only answer. Because of that, we need to reinstate other mandates.
Only those vaccinated will be allowed to see the “ball” drop in Times Square on New Year’s Eve.
With thousands expected to attend, how can this be enforced? Being an outdoor event, what really can go wrong?
This piggy backs in the tweet I posted above.
I mentioned a while ago that Mac’s brother creates disaster planning manuals/procedures for hospitals. I also mentioned that in 2006 with his expertise, he and I created phased lists of steps to take in the event of a pandemic. The second to last stage included hospital capacity and having to treat people in their home. We are either close to or just entering unchartered territory. And yet we do to continue to refuse to take steps that are proven to make a difference.
“Amid surge in patients, hospitals treat more people at home
Hospitals are canceling nonurgent surgeries to concentrate on the sickest patients, many of whom delayed treatment earlier in the pandemic. At the same time, the number of people hospitalized for COVID in Massachusetts has more than doubled over the past month, to 1,473.
Under pressure to find new ways to care for patients, hospitals are expanding programs to treat patients who need hospital-level care inside their own homes to help manage unprecedented demand and a shortage of hospital beds and staff…….”
See full story on bostonglobe.com
One thing I do want to say is that I disagree with folks who say we’re back to March 2020. We are not. We have an array of pharmaceutical tools to prevent and tackle Covid-19 (severe disease, that is). The data show that there has been some decoupling of cases and hospitalizations/deaths. Not enough, to be sure, but vaccines have prevented millions of deaths worldwide.
But, I think we really need to re-think our strategy going forward. Just focusing on vaccinations isn’t a strategy, at least not a successful one. Countries like Canada, Germany, and Japan have been much more successful at pursuing a two-pronged approach of vaccination and mitigation. Though they’ve endured several waves of infections, they’ve been able to blunt the impact of waves better than we have and have death rates less than 50% of ours (Germany), and in the case of Canada about 30% of ours, and Japan, about 10% of ours.
Joshua, has Canada closed its borders yet, or is it considering? I believe all indoor sporting events will not have spectators for awhile as I mentioned above re: Bruins-Canadiens.
As for mitigation, try doing that on a crowded bus or subway car. This virus travels like crazy anyway. Not to mention plexiglass most everywhere you go. At work, myself and the other Security officers are surrounded by it for 8 hours every shift.
I know it’s hard, Philip. Indeed, mitigation measures are not a perfect science and certainly not foolproof. I have a lot of respect for people like you, who’ve gone to work throughout the pandemic, taken the T, been exposed to the virus (and other viruses), etc … I’m lucky. I get to work from home and can minimize my exposure, accordingly.
I absolutely agree. My comment on regressions was based solely on having to return to mitigation strategies that …for the most part…should not have ended. We have the tools that we asked for but I do not agree that we should rely only on vaccination. If any of that makes sense. I’m beyond frustrated.
Joshua, I will strongly disagree with you for the first time. YOU are far from dumb. That distinction is reserved for those who think vaccines are the only answer and refuse to put other mitigation practices in place.
Sadly, many states are overwhelmed. Some hospitals are using the national guard.
Joshua dumb? Right and I am Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy all rolled into one.
6,345 new cases confirmed in MA today with
with an additional 725 probable cases.
This is beyond getting out of control!!!!!!
BUT keep the schools open by all means. No mask mandate, of course, sound policy. Keep concerts and sporting events going. Just keep it up and see what happens.
Why are people so STUPID???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I am SICK to DEATH of this LUNACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It truly is lunacy. Sadly, that might even be putting it mildly
Vaccinate, wears masks and do your best to mitigate. But I am not for closing schools, or any lockdown Look at data from NYC, folks with 3 jabs are doing very well. It is imperative we get more people vaccinated. Again we have to be smart but even though I am as liberal as they come, I don’t not think schools, sports or businesses should be closed. We are all going to get Covid in the next 2 years just like the flu. Luckily we haven’t yet. At this point if you choose not to get vaccinated I have no sympathy.
Quickest way to get folks vaccinated is to require it for travel and any indoor activities. But folks on the right refuse to get onboard.
Generally JP Dave you and I don’t disagree on much but clearly on this one we do 🙂
Yes, we do. But I still like you buddy.
We do not need a lockdown, but I’d argue forever that
schools should be closed with remote learning.
For Eva, I would argue that.
You know my view
The past that bothers me most of all is that, before the shot hit the fan, if folks wanted to send kids to school, I respected that wish. But where was the respect for parents who did not want to send kids. It goes BOTH ways or should.
I would get on board with closing businesses before schools. But don’t think we need to go there yet.
Thank you for posting, Hadi.
i think it’s important to have a respectful debate on these issues. I always appreciate hearing different viewpoints. I do understand where you’re coming from regarding schools. In-person learning is really important. I am sure the Danes and Dutch see it that way, too, as they’ve rarely shut down their schools. However, they did so this week because they were concerned about the knock-on effects of a large wave of infections in schools, which would then hit households at Christmas time. Of course, some in those households are vulnerable, whether vaccinated or not. Also, I think the authorities considered the timing: Giving an additional week to 10 days off now (which will be made up in spring and summer) may preempt the need to do so in January. Namely, it gives the authorities time to boost the heck out of the population. [My ex-wife, for example, is getting boosted on Christmas Day, in a mass vaccination center – we should consider using mass vaccination centers for boosters, too, but we’re not and that’s a missed opportunity] This is also the reasoning for partial closures of businesses, restaurants, and no spectators at sport venues.
Overall, I am a strong believer in common sense mitigation measures. One of them is limited capacity in indoor spaces. Transmission is really high right now (a combination of Delta and Omicron), and boosting levels are still too low to prevent the vulnerable vaccinated from being quite susceptible (let alone the unvaccinated).
I agree, Joshua. With 1,700 children per day testing positive, the cycle needs to be broken. Funny thing is that had we kept the hybrid, it is entirely possible the numbers might not be this bad since it might have allowed distancing. I understand in person is important for many. What we ignore is that remote gave many the opportunity to excel.
It was a sad choice for there to be only one option.
My daughter just got word today that a ton of the high shcool students were sent home today either with covid or
they were in close contact. My daughter was working closely
with one of these students. She fully expects to get covid now.
We shall see. She is fully vaccinated and boosted, so even if she gets it, we are hopeful it will be mild.
One of my co-workers is home ill with covid. and he aunt and her daughter have it as well.
It is everywhere.
I am so very sorry, JPD.
This is exactly what we did wrong. And it was VERY predictable
Until the past couple of weeks, the vast majority of children were younger grades …..upsetting on its own of course. But when cases began showing up in the older grades where kids re vaccinated, numbers began to increase rapidly. It was always spreading within school. But when a whole new set of kids became susceptible, the numbers skyrocketed.
That is when we should have realized steps need to be taken. Immediately.
Ag
I wonder what Ag means
Silver…
(If I remember correctly from staring at the Periodic Table instead of listening to the teacher in 7th grade)
Hopefully your daughter doesn’t get Covid JPD. Even if it she gets it and is a mild case, she still runs the risk of LONG Covid. I get the impression that once a person gets Covid, it stays with you well after recovery, maybe indefinitely? At least the traditional flu and ordinary viruses leave the body completely eventually.
But let’s just hope she never gets it. Since she was masked and fully vaccinated, I would think things should be well in her favor. Keep us posted.
Honestly for majority of kids remote learning was a complete joke and no doubt kids are way behind bc of it.
If done correctly, remote learning works. Perhaps it is tougher on the lower grades, but it can work, if people want it to work.
Special needs students do badly with remote learning. They require lots of interaction with their teachers especially, as well as their classmates.
Well then, perhaps the parents need to step in or perhaps they have to take a break until it is safer.
I just stood up and applauded. That needed to be said.
How do you expect parents to step up who have bills, food, clothes etc. to take care of? I am not talking about me because I would be fine. But millions is families can’t afford that.
It depends on your definition of special needs. Generally children who have IEPs are considered special needs. They may struggle with one subject such as math or reading
MANY who have IEPs did exceptionally well during remote , including three of my grandkids. Higher level special needs do need in person. That said, I hav spotted links here before where some parents of high need children also said their kids did better during remote.
I have posted not spotted
Exactly. It was exceptional in many schools in this area including Sutton. We have a superintendent and staff who were fully created to making it work. God knows we had more than enough time for all schools to perfect hybrid. I spent several months alone asking why we were not doing so on this blog
But absent that, we have Esser money that could be used to offset cost of home schooling….with a cap. The only approved DESE home school program has to be applied for a month or so before the end of 2021 school year.
We are truly a ship comprised of many fools
I’m sorry your school system didn’t get the job done. Too many I know who are in a position to see the end result said more kids than they thought possible excelled.
The Rockettes have cancelled the remainder of their 2021 season.
The Dutch Outbreak Management Team – it’s a group of scientists/policymakers from their CDC and other agencies who advise the government on how to manage the pandemic – now recommends a hard lockdown. Even though cases and hospitalizations have been diminishing in the Netherlands for the past 7-10 days the OMT is very concerned about Omicron and its impact on the healthcare system, so much so that the team advises a hard lockdown (everything would close, except non-essential businesses). https://nos.nl/artikel/2409934-outbreak-management-team-adviseert-harde-lockdown-bijna-alles-dicht
The article says the government will likely adopt this recommendation. But, I do not think it will. This particular government is very reluctant to implement harsh measures. We’ll know more tomorrow.
I am surprised that the OMT is advising a hard lockdown. But, what do I know? I know several of the OMT members. Well-respected, sober-minded folks. Are they being too cautious? Or, are they seeing something ominous that we’re not capable of right now?
What’s going on with our sports teams (NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA)? Covid-19 is spreading among athletes like crazy!
Back to 2020!? 🙁
For the NFL Rams Seahawks eagles Washington playing Tuesday raiders browns moved to Monday. For college basketball North Carolina will play Kentucky tomorrow. North Carolina was suppose to play UCLA and Kentucky was suppose to play Ohio St but those teams are in covid protocols.
Thanks JJ. I thought I saw two pats players are positive. But I’m not sure. I’m a bit concerned about the playoffs and SB
As I have stated about 400 times now, variants are more contagious and less deadly, in general. That’s exactly what we’ve seen. Science. This is NOT A RETURN TO 2020.
While I think…and philip can correct me….a return to 2020 was in regard to mandates. It certainly was what I referred to but I explained that.
It is a mixed bag. Schools are far and away worse than 2020. If we continue to overwhelm hospitals, deaths can result in unexpected ways. This is an Interesting take
One of the catches is that the virus only “needs” the host to stay alive long enough to spread the disease. After that, the death of the host is irrelevant.
It includes:
Respiratory viruses, like influenza and the human coronaviruses, need hosts that move around enough to breathe on one another, so extremely high virulence might be detrimental in some cases. But there’s no obvious evolutionary advantage for SARS-CoV-2 to reduce its virulence, because it pays little price for occasionally killing people: It spreads readily from infected people who are not yet feeling sick, and even from those who may never show symptoms of illness.
Powerful article SC. I have saved it to read again. There is a lot there to digest. It makes perfect sense to me that…for now…..we cannot continue to give the virus hosts.
Thank you
Here’s a short article on the possible Dutch hard lockdown. I remain skeptical that this particular government would institute such draconian steps. I think it’s evening/night `lockdown’ is working well. But again, I’m not there. I don’t know what to think of the situation. The Dutch have mostly accepted the partial closures (evening/night). In fact, there’s broad support for most measures. But a total lockdown will not be palatable to many. The protests could get very ugly. https://nltimes.nl/2021/12/17/hard-lockdown-necessary-right-now-says-dutch-outbreak-team
Interesting tidbit: A low dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine did not produce a potent immune response in children 2-5 years of age, the companies announced on Friday.
England is now considering a two week hard lockdown. They call it a circuit breaker. It essentially means all non-essential businesses will be closed, if the government goes ahead with it.
Denmark has closed many non-essential businesses and schools, though not restaurants (restrictions do apply – limits on serving of alcohol and hours).
C-19 for 12-18 is ready.
Comments are closed.
Your no-hype southeastern New England weather blog!
Thanks TK.
The CDC is highly recommending the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines as opposed to the J&J vaccine which has been known to cause major blood clots.
R is now under 1 in Germany, the Netherlands, and Austria. Rather dramatic case decline this week. Hospitalizations are decreasing steadily, too. Even deaths are decreasing slightly. All three nations implemented a strict set of NPI: Mask mandates in all indoor spaces, no spectators at sporting events, limits on gatherings (4 visitor maximum) in homes, distancing and customer number limits in stores, schools closed early for the Christmas break, and restaurant, bar, and indoor venue closures in the evening/night.
Vaccines alone just aren’t going to cut it. I’m not in favor of harsh lockdowns, but even if we did half of what they’ve done we’d be in a better place. But, we haven’t and won’t.
The Dutch policy is a two-pronged `attack:’ NPIs through mid January, and at the same time boost systematically at mass vaccination sites going down the age ladder. They’re now at the birth years 1960 through 1964. They intend to complete the booster program (intended for adults >35; others must be in risk groups) by mid January. Notably, they are not mass vaccinating the 5 to 16 group. Children can get vaccinated, but there’s no push to do so. Vaccinations and boosters for adults; different story. While there is NO vaccine mandate anywhere in Holland, except for the healthcare sector, the government does have an effective system for urging people to get vaccinated or boosted: A steady diet of emails, texts, phone calls, and regular mail that come from the GGD (public health authority) AND your local GP/PCP. The GGD coordinates with GPs/PCPs. Note, the Dutch do NOT allow financial incentives to get vaccinated. No prizes, no lotteries, etc … This is considered unethical.
Excellent comments, Joshua, showing once again that not only are there are steps to take that work, but the difference between the mindset here and sadly most other countries outside of the US. This is not new. Mac’s mom was one of the most gracious people I had the pleasure to know. Because of that, it surprised me when she said more than once that no matter the country in which they were living or just visiting, it was sadly too easy to identify folks from this country….her country.
Knowing how poorly we are doing as a country should be a wake up call. But we double down. As I write, it occurs to me to rethink putting all blame on our leaders. First and foremost, we elected them. Secondly, no matted the steps we have in place, I wonder how many would respect the need for them.
Good morning,
The number of new cases in Massachusetts is most alarming.
Yesterday there were 5,883 new cases reported with another
808 “probable” cases.
Here is the covid dashboard:
https://ibb.co/BT2HZCR
Our governor is an IDIOT!
There should be a state-wide MASK MANDATE
WHY not? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?
A colleague at work now has covid.
This country has had an abysmal response to covid!!!!!!
As you know, I absolutely agree. Of the 5,000ish ~1600 are children.
Given what you’ve posted about your workplace “standards” I’m not surprised JPD. Stay safe at work!
Why they don’t require the employees to be vaccinated is a head scratcher to say the least.
They are still having a holiday luncheon at the office today.
I will be attending virtually.
Big in person meeting scheduled for next week.
This will be a show down, because I will NOT be attending.
We shall see what happens.
This meeting SHOULD be virtual(!)@(#&!(@#)(!@&#()*
While what I believe may not be the view of many, I’ve truly stopped caring. Imo You are 100 perfect in the right JPD.
If you can attend the luncheon virtually, why not the meeting?
I love it. Perfect question, Philip.
Because the people who won’t vaccinate also aren’t likely to respond to a mandate.
I don’t think the mandate solves the problem of getting all vaccinated and on-time.
I’m not sure what will, other than the Delta and Omricon causing people’s deaths and that swaying the unvaccinated.
Joshua, why the blood clots from the J&J vaccine compared to the Pfizer and Moderna? I have to assume that the chemicals must be remarkably different from the other two?
Did I hear correctly that some deaths have been attributed directly to the J&J vaccine amongst those who received it?
Yes. The J&J vaccine is a so-called viral vector vaccine. It’s based on a totally different platform than mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).
UK records record numbers of cases for the 3rd straight day. Hospitals in the London area, in particular, are seeing big increases in Covid-19 patients.
Premier League (soccer) in Britain is considering postponing ALL games until some time in January. Monday decision by club owners and league officials is forthcoming.
Latest data from Denmark and London – Imperial College – suggest Omicron may not be milder than Delta in terms of severity. Nothing is certain at this point in time. My hope is still that it’s less severe, but hope isn’t evidence-based.
Overall, the picture isn’t pretty.
As far as holiday luncheons, office parties, and the like, my question is why now.
The Bruins game with Montreal will be played without fans. Canada isn’t messing around with the new variant. I believe their borders to the U.S. may eventually be closed, if not already.
The comments are as chilling as the tweet
https://twitter.com/denise_dewald/status/1471874149605912583?s=21
Why have we regressed back to 2020? 🙁
I’m not sure we regressed. We did better in 2020. Relaxing mitigation policies was a folly. We are now paying the price
I say we have regressed. Indoor mask mandates have returned to much of the nation, not to mention hospitals are becoming overwhelmed again.
I understand. Put another way. We have regressed to 2020 mandates because we never should have removed them. We got cocky in the belief that vaccines were the one and only answer. Because of that, we need to reinstate other mandates.
Only those vaccinated will be allowed to see the “ball” drop in Times Square on New Year’s Eve.
With thousands expected to attend, how can this be enforced? Being an outdoor event, what really can go wrong?
This piggy backs in the tweet I posted above.
I mentioned a while ago that Mac’s brother creates disaster planning manuals/procedures for hospitals. I also mentioned that in 2006 with his expertise, he and I created phased lists of steps to take in the event of a pandemic. The second to last stage included hospital capacity and having to treat people in their home. We are either close to or just entering unchartered territory. And yet we do to continue to refuse to take steps that are proven to make a difference.
“Amid surge in patients, hospitals treat more people at home
Hospitals are canceling nonurgent surgeries to concentrate on the sickest patients, many of whom delayed treatment earlier in the pandemic. At the same time, the number of people hospitalized for COVID in Massachusetts has more than doubled over the past month, to 1,473.
Under pressure to find new ways to care for patients, hospitals are expanding programs to treat patients who need hospital-level care inside their own homes to help manage unprecedented demand and a shortage of hospital beds and staff…….”
See full story on bostonglobe.com
One thing I do want to say is that I disagree with folks who say we’re back to March 2020. We are not. We have an array of pharmaceutical tools to prevent and tackle Covid-19 (severe disease, that is). The data show that there has been some decoupling of cases and hospitalizations/deaths. Not enough, to be sure, but vaccines have prevented millions of deaths worldwide.
But, I think we really need to re-think our strategy going forward. Just focusing on vaccinations isn’t a strategy, at least not a successful one. Countries like Canada, Germany, and Japan have been much more successful at pursuing a two-pronged approach of vaccination and mitigation. Though they’ve endured several waves of infections, they’ve been able to blunt the impact of waves better than we have and have death rates less than 50% of ours (Germany), and in the case of Canada about 30% of ours, and Japan, about 10% of ours.
Joshua, has Canada closed its borders yet, or is it considering? I believe all indoor sporting events will not have spectators for awhile as I mentioned above re: Bruins-Canadiens.
As for mitigation, try doing that on a crowded bus or subway car. This virus travels like crazy anyway. Not to mention plexiglass most everywhere you go. At work, myself and the other Security officers are surrounded by it for 8 hours every shift.
I know it’s hard, Philip. Indeed, mitigation measures are not a perfect science and certainly not foolproof. I have a lot of respect for people like you, who’ve gone to work throughout the pandemic, taken the T, been exposed to the virus (and other viruses), etc … I’m lucky. I get to work from home and can minimize my exposure, accordingly.
I absolutely agree. My comment on regressions was based solely on having to return to mitigation strategies that …for the most part…should not have ended. We have the tools that we asked for but I do not agree that we should rely only on vaccination. If any of that makes sense. I’m beyond frustrated.
Michigan health/hospital system is overwhelmed. https://twitter.com/ArthurCaplan/status/1471932952489639947
And, I thought Delta stood a chance (how dumb of me): https://twitter.com/theosanderson/status/1471537690650812420
Joshua, I will strongly disagree with you for the first time. YOU are far from dumb. That distinction is reserved for those who think vaccines are the only answer and refuse to put other mitigation practices in place.
Sadly, many states are overwhelmed. Some hospitals are using the national guard.
Joshua dumb? Right and I am Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the tooth fairy all rolled into one.
6,345 new cases confirmed in MA today with
with an additional 725 probable cases.
This is beyond getting out of control!!!!!!
BUT keep the schools open by all means. No mask mandate, of course, sound policy. Keep concerts and sporting events going. Just keep it up and see what happens.
Why are people so STUPID???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I am SICK to DEATH of this LUNACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It truly is lunacy. Sadly, that might even be putting it mildly
Vaccinate, wears masks and do your best to mitigate. But I am not for closing schools, or any lockdown Look at data from NYC, folks with 3 jabs are doing very well. It is imperative we get more people vaccinated. Again we have to be smart but even though I am as liberal as they come, I don’t not think schools, sports or businesses should be closed. We are all going to get Covid in the next 2 years just like the flu. Luckily we haven’t yet. At this point if you choose not to get vaccinated I have no sympathy.
Quickest way to get folks vaccinated is to require it for travel and any indoor activities. But folks on the right refuse to get onboard.
Generally JP Dave you and I don’t disagree on much but clearly on this one we do 🙂
Yes, we do. But I still like you buddy.
We do not need a lockdown, but I’d argue forever that
schools should be closed with remote learning.
For Eva, I would argue that.
You know my view
The past that bothers me most of all is that, before the shot hit the fan, if folks wanted to send kids to school, I respected that wish. But where was the respect for parents who did not want to send kids. It goes BOTH ways or should.
I would get on board with closing businesses before schools. But don’t think we need to go there yet.
Thank you for posting, Hadi.
i think it’s important to have a respectful debate on these issues. I always appreciate hearing different viewpoints. I do understand where you’re coming from regarding schools. In-person learning is really important. I am sure the Danes and Dutch see it that way, too, as they’ve rarely shut down their schools. However, they did so this week because they were concerned about the knock-on effects of a large wave of infections in schools, which would then hit households at Christmas time. Of course, some in those households are vulnerable, whether vaccinated or not. Also, I think the authorities considered the timing: Giving an additional week to 10 days off now (which will be made up in spring and summer) may preempt the need to do so in January. Namely, it gives the authorities time to boost the heck out of the population. [My ex-wife, for example, is getting boosted on Christmas Day, in a mass vaccination center – we should consider using mass vaccination centers for boosters, too, but we’re not and that’s a missed opportunity] This is also the reasoning for partial closures of businesses, restaurants, and no spectators at sport venues.
Overall, I am a strong believer in common sense mitigation measures. One of them is limited capacity in indoor spaces. Transmission is really high right now (a combination of Delta and Omicron), and boosting levels are still too low to prevent the vulnerable vaccinated from being quite susceptible (let alone the unvaccinated).
I agree, Joshua. With 1,700 children per day testing positive, the cycle needs to be broken. Funny thing is that had we kept the hybrid, it is entirely possible the numbers might not be this bad since it might have allowed distancing. I understand in person is important for many. What we ignore is that remote gave many the opportunity to excel.
It was a sad choice for there to be only one option.
My daughter just got word today that a ton of the high shcool students were sent home today either with covid or
they were in close contact. My daughter was working closely
with one of these students. She fully expects to get covid now.
We shall see. She is fully vaccinated and boosted, so even if she gets it, we are hopeful it will be mild.
One of my co-workers is home ill with covid. and he aunt and her daughter have it as well.
It is everywhere.
I am so very sorry, JPD.
This is exactly what we did wrong. And it was VERY predictable
Until the past couple of weeks, the vast majority of children were younger grades …..upsetting on its own of course. But when cases began showing up in the older grades where kids re vaccinated, numbers began to increase rapidly. It was always spreading within school. But when a whole new set of kids became susceptible, the numbers skyrocketed.
That is when we should have realized steps need to be taken. Immediately.
Ag
I wonder what Ag means
Silver…
(If I remember correctly from staring at the Periodic Table instead of listening to the teacher in 7th grade)
Hopefully your daughter doesn’t get Covid JPD. Even if it she gets it and is a mild case, she still runs the risk of LONG Covid. I get the impression that once a person gets Covid, it stays with you well after recovery, maybe indefinitely? At least the traditional flu and ordinary viruses leave the body completely eventually.
But let’s just hope she never gets it. Since she was masked and fully vaccinated, I would think things should be well in her favor. Keep us posted.
Honestly for majority of kids remote learning was a complete joke and no doubt kids are way behind bc of it.
If done correctly, remote learning works. Perhaps it is tougher on the lower grades, but it can work, if people want it to work.
Special needs students do badly with remote learning. They require lots of interaction with their teachers especially, as well as their classmates.
Well then, perhaps the parents need to step in or perhaps they have to take a break until it is safer.
I just stood up and applauded. That needed to be said.
How do you expect parents to step up who have bills, food, clothes etc. to take care of? I am not talking about me because I would be fine. But millions is families can’t afford that.
It depends on your definition of special needs. Generally children who have IEPs are considered special needs. They may struggle with one subject such as math or reading
MANY who have IEPs did exceptionally well during remote , including three of my grandkids. Higher level special needs do need in person. That said, I hav spotted links here before where some parents of high need children also said their kids did better during remote.
I have posted not spotted
Exactly. It was exceptional in many schools in this area including Sutton. We have a superintendent and staff who were fully created to making it work. God knows we had more than enough time for all schools to perfect hybrid. I spent several months alone asking why we were not doing so on this blog
But absent that, we have Esser money that could be used to offset cost of home schooling….with a cap. The only approved DESE home school program has to be applied for a month or so before the end of 2021 school year.
We are truly a ship comprised of many fools
I’m sorry your school system didn’t get the job done. Too many I know who are in a position to see the end result said more kids than they thought possible excelled.
The Rockettes have cancelled the remainder of their 2021 season.
The Dutch Outbreak Management Team – it’s a group of scientists/policymakers from their CDC and other agencies who advise the government on how to manage the pandemic – now recommends a hard lockdown. Even though cases and hospitalizations have been diminishing in the Netherlands for the past 7-10 days the OMT is very concerned about Omicron and its impact on the healthcare system, so much so that the team advises a hard lockdown (everything would close, except non-essential businesses). https://nos.nl/artikel/2409934-outbreak-management-team-adviseert-harde-lockdown-bijna-alles-dicht
The article says the government will likely adopt this recommendation. But, I do not think it will. This particular government is very reluctant to implement harsh measures. We’ll know more tomorrow.
I am surprised that the OMT is advising a hard lockdown. But, what do I know? I know several of the OMT members. Well-respected, sober-minded folks. Are they being too cautious? Or, are they seeing something ominous that we’re not capable of right now?
What’s going on with our sports teams (NFL, NBA, NHL, NCAA)? Covid-19 is spreading among athletes like crazy!
Back to 2020!? 🙁
For the NFL Rams Seahawks eagles Washington playing Tuesday raiders browns moved to Monday. For college basketball North Carolina will play Kentucky tomorrow. North Carolina was suppose to play UCLA and Kentucky was suppose to play Ohio St but those teams are in covid protocols.
Thanks JJ. I thought I saw two pats players are positive. But I’m not sure. I’m a bit concerned about the playoffs and SB
As I have stated about 400 times now, variants are more contagious and less deadly, in general. That’s exactly what we’ve seen. Science. This is NOT A RETURN TO 2020.
While I think…and philip can correct me….a return to 2020 was in regard to mandates. It certainly was what I referred to but I explained that.
It is a mixed bag. Schools are far and away worse than 2020. If we continue to overwhelm hospitals, deaths can result in unexpected ways. This is an Interesting take
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/15/omicron-covid-likely-accelerate-death-rate-europe-eu-health-agency
One of the catches is that the virus only “needs” the host to stay alive long enough to spread the disease. After that, the death of the host is irrelevant.
This is an interesting article in the Smithsonian:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/how-viruses-evolve-180975343/
It includes:
Respiratory viruses, like influenza and the human coronaviruses, need hosts that move around enough to breathe on one another, so extremely high virulence might be detrimental in some cases. But there’s no obvious evolutionary advantage for SARS-CoV-2 to reduce its virulence, because it pays little price for occasionally killing people: It spreads readily from infected people who are not yet feeling sick, and even from those who may never show symptoms of illness.
Powerful article SC. I have saved it to read again. There is a lot there to digest. It makes perfect sense to me that…for now…..we cannot continue to give the virus hosts.
Thank you
Here’s a short article on the possible Dutch hard lockdown. I remain skeptical that this particular government would institute such draconian steps. I think it’s evening/night `lockdown’ is working well. But again, I’m not there. I don’t know what to think of the situation. The Dutch have mostly accepted the partial closures (evening/night). In fact, there’s broad support for most measures. But a total lockdown will not be palatable to many. The protests could get very ugly.
https://nltimes.nl/2021/12/17/hard-lockdown-necessary-right-now-says-dutch-outbreak-team
Interesting tidbit: A low dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine did not produce a potent immune response in children 2-5 years of age, the companies announced on Friday.
England is now considering a two week hard lockdown. They call it a circuit breaker. It essentially means all non-essential businesses will be closed, if the government goes ahead with it.
Denmark has closed many non-essential businesses and schools, though not restaurants (restrictions do apply – limits on serving of alcohol and hours).
C-19 for 12-18 is ready.