34 thoughts on “C-19 Chat Post – December 18 2021”
Thanks TK.
TD Garden has now issued a mask mandate for spectators.
Also, they must show proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test.
If this isn’t 2020, it’s certainly NOT 2019 either.
A lot of venues have been doing that all along. When I went to a concert at Fenway in September that (masks and proof of ID) was required. Masks were required when I went to TSO in Worcester in November, and Mannheim Steamroller in Lowell on December 10, and when I went to a college hockey game in early November. The changes being made are really more in the way of minor readjustments, based on things we’ve learned. Yes there are still people fighting against it (no surprise) but this is not a return to the early days of the pandemic, rather a response to the current situation based on what we have learned during it. Like weather, media does play some roll in dramatizing some of what’s going on, sadly, because once again the real story gets lost in all of that. Between local media doing the drama thing, and your “news” stations (who shall remain nameless) deciding that the only thing worth doing is “tearing the other side down” are of zero help. I despise those stations as much as I despise political parties. That entire set-up has been of zero help to all of us during this. Sad.
I would love going back to the movies again, but I couldn’t enjoy it having to wear a mask throughout the picture. When I watch SNL or any other live show it pains me when the camera pans to the audience wearing masks.
As for the TD Garden, it’s not like there is a “team” to cheer on right now, anyway.
TK, are you referring to a certain “station”on the 680 AM dial? 😉
This is a good article on self tests. I suspect we know most of it, but it never hurts to verify. I read folks in countries who are receiving free home test kits check daily before going to work or a gathering. I listened to a radio personality yesterday that I like very much. He said they all test daily …for their safety but also for the safety of others. I know many folks in this country would do this were they to receive a set of home tests weekly. Sadly, unlike outside of this country, I’m afraid it would be considered a nuisance.
The hard lockdown in the Netherlands will go into effect, beginning tomorrow at 5am. Everything will close, except grocery stores and pharmacies, until January 14th. All schools will close, too until January 14th (they were already closed early for an extended Christmas vacation).
Uncertain if England will follow suit. Doesn’t look like it will do so this week, but there’s pressure to have a strict lockdown for two weeks – a so-called circuit-breaker.
Denmark is essentially in full lockdown, except for restaurants (though there will be limits on hours and alcohol).
I suspect more countries will be announcing lockdowns shortly. Ireland sort of has, though its bars and restaurants will remain open until 8pm (Irish government went against its public health authority’s advice).
What to make of all this? I’m unsure. What makes these lockdowns VERY different from previous ones is they’re not reactive, but more proactive. In the Netherlands, for example, case numbers have been falling as have hospitalizations, in part because of a partial (evening/night) lockdown. But, the authorities there are very concerned about Omicron, and don’t feel that enough people are boosted to prevent a surge and healthcare system overload.
Clearly, our state and federal government is not responding the way the Europeans are.
Canada sort of is. Not a lockdown up there, but many places are closing voluntarily, and lots of indoor venues (arenas) have no spectators or very limited capacity.
I don’t know if my train of thought makes sense.
Europe was ahead of the US by at least a month when it comes to omicron. We did what we have done every other time and did nothing proactively.
If countries that have been dealing with omicron longer than we are putting strong mandates in place, it seems to me the wise thing for the US to do to be proactive and follow suit now. I don’t understand what we are waiting for since we are already in horrific shape.
Back to the cardboard cutouts of spectators in the stands?
Bruins – Canadiens postponed tonight.
I still can’t get over the number newly reported covid cases for our state yesterday. It boggles my mind.
Vicki, Omicron has actually only been in Europe in large numbers for about 10 days. They had a few identified hundred cases in late November/early December, but it then started to take off around the 6th of December like a rocket ship. The spread of Omicron is much faster than previous variants, not only in getting from one country to another and then to our shores but also once it’s here rapidly spreading to become dominant. I suspect it’s already near dominance in a few cities, like NYC, and will be later this week in Boston.
I think the European governments are reacting to the speed with which the variant is accelerating. They want to be ahead of it before it becomes dominant in every region of a country.
Ed Yong’s piece illuminates the issue of individual versus collective risk. Individuals, who are fully vaccinated and boosted, face minimal risk from Omicron. But, the collective risk is significant because of the transmissibility, vaccine evasiveness, probability of reinfections, etc … So, while I can certainly go to a packed movie theater this evening (I won’t, but just using this as an example) and not be concerned about getting very sick from Omicron, I can unwittingly become a conduit for further spread, as Omicron breaches the porous defenses I have against coronavirus contraction. If by way of a chain reaction the virus then finds more hosts (which it will) after infecting me, one or more of those hosts will be susceptible to severe illness. Maybe because they’re unvaccinated, or they’re immunocompromised, elderly, etc … Americans are not accustomed to thinking collectively. We’re individualists, for better or worse. Europeans have traditionally been more prone to thinking collectively. So, risk is seen from a societal or collective perspective, not an individual’s. Solidarity is a word we don’t see much in the U.S. It’s a fairly popular word in Europe. Not to say everyone over there feels solidarity with fellow citizens who may be vulnerable. But, it’s a lot more prevalent – that feeling of solidarity – than here.
By the way, the way Europeans and Americans view risk extends to our totally different perspectives on health insurance. Ours is based much more on actuarial risk of the individual, in fact, here premiums have traditionally been calculated based on individual risk factors! This was a shock to me when I arrived back in the U.S. in the 1990s. This is mostly a foreign concept to a European’s way of thinking about health insurance, whether that person is insured by a government payer like the British NHS, or a private health insurer (as in the Netherlands; there are no public payers in Holland). In all cases, insurance is seen as social; cross subsidies of the vulnerable and elderly are viewed as part of the deal, if you will; the social contract. Heavily influenced by the 18th century French political philosopher Rousseau, by the way, and by the 19th century German leader Otto von Bismarck (founding father, if you will, of (social) health insurance systems.
Thank you Joshua. I mis remembered as I thought you’d said a while ago it was in Europe before SA. But a while to me nowadays can be only a matter of days
My thoughts were not accurate on omicron. Am I correct that the surge was in Europe a fair amount of time before it arrived in our shores? Even if not O, it seems to me we might take a page from the books of folks instituting mandates.
I did say that. Though Omicron likely originated in SA, European authorities discovered Omicron in a few samples from mid November, suggesting it was already in Europe. It could have still originated in SA, but hadn’t been sequenced until late November.
Btw, how is SA doing currently with Omicron? Since it started there, will it subside before other nations?
Peaking or has peaked. Good news for SA. Not a lot of lessons to be drawn from SA, however. None of the previous waves they had looked anything like ours. To begin with, it’s a very different demographic.
And it begins.
The Bruins have been shut down by the NHL through at least Dec. 26, the league announced Saturday, as the team grapples with an outbreak of COVID-19 that has resulted in seven players and two staffers entering protocols since Monday.
The organization also cited “additional positive cases and concern with the continued spread of COVID-19” in a statement.
Having massive Covid outbreaks is not inevitable. It is a policy choice.
Japan is not in lockdown. Nor has it locked down. It does have universal masking, distancing, strict crowd and capacity limits, and an extensive test, contact tracing, and mandatory isolation system in place, as well as a quarantine and testing program for all incoming travelers.
Japan has had zero deaths on 9 different days in the past month, with cases hovering around 100 a day (which is darn close to what my neighborhood in Boston averages each day).
Thanks, Joshua. The folks in Japan have a wonderful respect for each other.
PM Rutte (Netherlands) is a conservative, pro-business (low taxes) person. He hates the idea of heavy-handed government intervention. But, he felt he had to in order to preserve a functioning healthcare system, buy time to boost every adult (they intend to do so, and knowing the Dutch they will likely achieve 85% compliance within a few weeks), and assess Omicron’s impact. In his press conference, he was blunt. I’m translating some fragments. “Lockdowns are awful, for the businesses involved, and for people longing to just do what they want to do. I get it. … And it’s especially dreadful during the holiday season. I’m the grinch. I’m stealing your Christmas. I understand your anger and frustration. But, we cannot have a situation in which our ICUs are already overflowing with Covid patients, non-Covid patients can’t get treated, healthcare workers are overstressed, and the death and misery from this disease continue unabated. Now with the imminent Omicron wave it’s important we act proactively. In the meantime, I pledge to you that every adult will have received his or her invitation to get boosted by January 7th [this is how it works in the Netherlands; it’s NOT a free-for-all, it’s all very well organized, with invitations sent to at risk groups first, then down the age ladder], mass vaccination centers will be working 24/7 to boost everyone by January 14th.
And please, people (not you, WHW folks, by the way), don’t say “karma.” Oh, how I detest that. He probably was unvaccinated, and he went against the Governor’s policies. Sure, this wasn’t smart. But, he’s a fellow human being. I feel badly that this happened to him and I feel sorry for his family.
I caught Dr Reiner interviewed by a Pamela Brown on CNN when I exited out of the movie I was watching. He was asked about a comment in WAPO stating everyone would get covid in this wave. The comment was from Ian Gautzenheiser (phonetically and spelling absolutely horrific).
Dr Reiner said he does not believe that because if that happens, will swamp our healthcare system to the point that no one who needs treatment for anything ….from appendicitis to strokes to heart attacks. He said even if the virus is less severe (he stated we do not know it is) we will still “swamp” hospital.
The end note is we need to vaccinate because our healthcare system is at stake right now
I said last night that this was the second to last stage of the plan Mac’s brother and I put together in 2006. God help us if we get to the last stage.
As an aside….IMO wapo has been surprisingly irresponsible. I let my subscription lapse a while ago. NyT is not far behind
Sorry. That is difficult to read. My focus seems to be rattled by something ……perhaps the game 🙄
NYT is weirdly indifferent about Covid these days. The newspaper was NOT indifferent when Trump was in power, which makes me believe there’s something political about its stance.
More travel trouble, this time across Europe and affecting my daughter’s plans to see her mother in early January. Countries on the continent are essentially banning UK visitors. I think that’s only going to get worse in the coming days. Also, it looks like travel from non-Schengen countries (eg, US) into Europe will be problematic, with mandatory quarantines put in place by a growing number of countries.
The good news is that my daughter has mostly recovered from Covid. I spoke to her today. She’s still “exhausted,” but no fever, cough is subsiding, and she’s able to eat well.
Great news from your daughter on her recovery.
I agree re wapo. Nyt had a string of odd articles also.
I’m not surprised countries are closing borders but so sorry if your daughter and ex-wife are not able to be together
No SNL audience for tonight.
Harvard University goes to remote learning through late January.
C-19 for 12-19 is ready.
Comments are closed.
Your no-hype southeastern New England weather blog!
Thanks TK.
TD Garden has now issued a mask mandate for spectators.
Also, they must show proof of vaccination or a negative Covid test.
If this isn’t 2020, it’s certainly NOT 2019 either.
A lot of venues have been doing that all along. When I went to a concert at Fenway in September that (masks and proof of ID) was required. Masks were required when I went to TSO in Worcester in November, and Mannheim Steamroller in Lowell on December 10, and when I went to a college hockey game in early November. The changes being made are really more in the way of minor readjustments, based on things we’ve learned. Yes there are still people fighting against it (no surprise) but this is not a return to the early days of the pandemic, rather a response to the current situation based on what we have learned during it. Like weather, media does play some roll in dramatizing some of what’s going on, sadly, because once again the real story gets lost in all of that. Between local media doing the drama thing, and your “news” stations (who shall remain nameless) deciding that the only thing worth doing is “tearing the other side down” are of zero help. I despise those stations as much as I despise political parties. That entire set-up has been of zero help to all of us during this. Sad.
I would love going back to the movies again, but I couldn’t enjoy it having to wear a mask throughout the picture. When I watch SNL or any other live show it pains me when the camera pans to the audience wearing masks.
As for the TD Garden, it’s not like there is a “team” to cheer on right now, anyway.
TK, are you referring to a certain “station”on the 680 AM dial? 😉
This is a good article on self tests. I suspect we know most of it, but it never hurts to verify. I read folks in countries who are receiving free home test kits check daily before going to work or a gathering. I listened to a radio personality yesterday that I like very much. He said they all test daily …for their safety but also for the safety of others. I know many folks in this country would do this were they to receive a set of home tests weekly. Sadly, unlike outside of this country, I’m afraid it would be considered a nuisance.
https://twitter.com/wcvb/status/1472207288144474118?s=21
The hard lockdown in the Netherlands will go into effect, beginning tomorrow at 5am. Everything will close, except grocery stores and pharmacies, until January 14th. All schools will close, too until January 14th (they were already closed early for an extended Christmas vacation).
Uncertain if England will follow suit. Doesn’t look like it will do so this week, but there’s pressure to have a strict lockdown for two weeks – a so-called circuit-breaker.
Denmark is essentially in full lockdown, except for restaurants (though there will be limits on hours and alcohol).
I suspect more countries will be announcing lockdowns shortly. Ireland sort of has, though its bars and restaurants will remain open until 8pm (Irish government went against its public health authority’s advice).
What to make of all this? I’m unsure. What makes these lockdowns VERY different from previous ones is they’re not reactive, but more proactive. In the Netherlands, for example, case numbers have been falling as have hospitalizations, in part because of a partial (evening/night) lockdown. But, the authorities there are very concerned about Omicron, and don’t feel that enough people are boosted to prevent a surge and healthcare system overload.
Clearly, our state and federal government is not responding the way the Europeans are.
Canada sort of is. Not a lockdown up there, but many places are closing voluntarily, and lots of indoor venues (arenas) have no spectators or very limited capacity.
I don’t know if my train of thought makes sense.
Europe was ahead of the US by at least a month when it comes to omicron. We did what we have done every other time and did nothing proactively.
If countries that have been dealing with omicron longer than we are putting strong mandates in place, it seems to me the wise thing for the US to do to be proactive and follow suit now. I don’t understand what we are waiting for since we are already in horrific shape.
Back to the cardboard cutouts of spectators in the stands?
Bruins – Canadiens postponed tonight.
I still can’t get over the number newly reported covid cases for our state yesterday. It boggles my mind.
Vicki, Omicron has actually only been in Europe in large numbers for about 10 days. They had a few identified hundred cases in late November/early December, but it then started to take off around the 6th of December like a rocket ship. The spread of Omicron is much faster than previous variants, not only in getting from one country to another and then to our shores but also once it’s here rapidly spreading to become dominant. I suspect it’s already near dominance in a few cities, like NYC, and will be later this week in Boston.
I think the European governments are reacting to the speed with which the variant is accelerating. They want to be ahead of it before it becomes dominant in every region of a country.
Ed Yong’s piece illuminates the issue of individual versus collective risk. Individuals, who are fully vaccinated and boosted, face minimal risk from Omicron. But, the collective risk is significant because of the transmissibility, vaccine evasiveness, probability of reinfections, etc … So, while I can certainly go to a packed movie theater this evening (I won’t, but just using this as an example) and not be concerned about getting very sick from Omicron, I can unwittingly become a conduit for further spread, as Omicron breaches the porous defenses I have against coronavirus contraction. If by way of a chain reaction the virus then finds more hosts (which it will) after infecting me, one or more of those hosts will be susceptible to severe illness. Maybe because they’re unvaccinated, or they’re immunocompromised, elderly, etc … Americans are not accustomed to thinking collectively. We’re individualists, for better or worse. Europeans have traditionally been more prone to thinking collectively. So, risk is seen from a societal or collective perspective, not an individual’s. Solidarity is a word we don’t see much in the U.S. It’s a fairly popular word in Europe. Not to say everyone over there feels solidarity with fellow citizens who may be vulnerable. But, it’s a lot more prevalent – that feeling of solidarity – than here.
By the way, the way Europeans and Americans view risk extends to our totally different perspectives on health insurance. Ours is based much more on actuarial risk of the individual, in fact, here premiums have traditionally been calculated based on individual risk factors! This was a shock to me when I arrived back in the U.S. in the 1990s. This is mostly a foreign concept to a European’s way of thinking about health insurance, whether that person is insured by a government payer like the British NHS, or a private health insurer (as in the Netherlands; there are no public payers in Holland). In all cases, insurance is seen as social; cross subsidies of the vulnerable and elderly are viewed as part of the deal, if you will; the social contract. Heavily influenced by the 18th century French political philosopher Rousseau, by the way, and by the 19th century German leader Otto von Bismarck (founding father, if you will, of (social) health insurance systems.
Thank you Joshua. I mis remembered as I thought you’d said a while ago it was in Europe before SA. But a while to me nowadays can be only a matter of days
My thoughts were not accurate on omicron. Am I correct that the surge was in Europe a fair amount of time before it arrived in our shores? Even if not O, it seems to me we might take a page from the books of folks instituting mandates.
I did say that. Though Omicron likely originated in SA, European authorities discovered Omicron in a few samples from mid November, suggesting it was already in Europe. It could have still originated in SA, but hadn’t been sequenced until late November.
Btw, how is SA doing currently with Omicron? Since it started there, will it subside before other nations?
Peaking or has peaked. Good news for SA. Not a lot of lessons to be drawn from SA, however. None of the previous waves they had looked anything like ours. To begin with, it’s a very different demographic.
And it begins.
The Bruins have been shut down by the NHL through at least Dec. 26, the league announced Saturday, as the team grapples with an outbreak of COVID-19 that has resulted in seven players and two staffers entering protocols since Monday.
The organization also cited “additional positive cases and concern with the continued spread of COVID-19” in a statement.
I just hope nothing happens to the Patriots.
YIKES!!!
Me too.
I agree with this tweet on Japan: https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1471885363522199552
Having massive Covid outbreaks is not inevitable. It is a policy choice.
Japan is not in lockdown. Nor has it locked down. It does have universal masking, distancing, strict crowd and capacity limits, and an extensive test, contact tracing, and mandatory isolation system in place, as well as a quarantine and testing program for all incoming travelers.
Japan has had zero deaths on 9 different days in the past month, with cases hovering around 100 a day (which is darn close to what my neighborhood in Boston averages each day).
Thanks, Joshua. The folks in Japan have a wonderful respect for each other.
Danes explain why Denmark is in lockdown (with the exception of restaurants, albeit with limits on hours and alcohol served). The modelers and policymakers are very concerned about Omicron: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/12/18/omicron-variant-denmark/
Refreshing
Well that was a response to your next post
To this I say. Why are we not following suit.
PM Rutte (Netherlands) is a conservative, pro-business (low taxes) person. He hates the idea of heavy-handed government intervention. But, he felt he had to in order to preserve a functioning healthcare system, buy time to boost every adult (they intend to do so, and knowing the Dutch they will likely achieve 85% compliance within a few weeks), and assess Omicron’s impact. In his press conference, he was blunt. I’m translating some fragments. “Lockdowns are awful, for the businesses involved, and for people longing to just do what they want to do. I get it. … And it’s especially dreadful during the holiday season. I’m the grinch. I’m stealing your Christmas. I understand your anger and frustration. But, we cannot have a situation in which our ICUs are already overflowing with Covid patients, non-Covid patients can’t get treated, healthcare workers are overstressed, and the death and misery from this disease continue unabated. Now with the imminent Omicron wave it’s important we act proactively. In the meantime, I pledge to you that every adult will have received his or her invitation to get boosted by January 7th [this is how it works in the Netherlands; it’s NOT a free-for-all, it’s all very well organized, with invitations sent to at risk groups first, then down the age ladder], mass vaccination centers will be working 24/7 to boost everyone by January 14th.
May he rest in peace. Saddened by this. https://twitter.com/OlympiaJoe/status/1472351759553097730
And please, people (not you, WHW folks, by the way), don’t say “karma.” Oh, how I detest that. He probably was unvaccinated, and he went against the Governor’s policies. Sure, this wasn’t smart. But, he’s a fellow human being. I feel badly that this happened to him and I feel sorry for his family.
I caught Dr Reiner interviewed by a Pamela Brown on CNN when I exited out of the movie I was watching. He was asked about a comment in WAPO stating everyone would get covid in this wave. The comment was from Ian Gautzenheiser (phonetically and spelling absolutely horrific).
Dr Reiner said he does not believe that because if that happens, will swamp our healthcare system to the point that no one who needs treatment for anything ….from appendicitis to strokes to heart attacks. He said even if the virus is less severe (he stated we do not know it is) we will still “swamp” hospital.
The end note is we need to vaccinate because our healthcare system is at stake right now
I said last night that this was the second to last stage of the plan Mac’s brother and I put together in 2006. God help us if we get to the last stage.
As an aside….IMO wapo has been surprisingly irresponsible. I let my subscription lapse a while ago. NyT is not far behind
Sorry. That is difficult to read. My focus seems to be rattled by something ……perhaps the game 🙄
NYT is weirdly indifferent about Covid these days. The newspaper was NOT indifferent when Trump was in power, which makes me believe there’s something political about its stance.
More travel trouble, this time across Europe and affecting my daughter’s plans to see her mother in early January. Countries on the continent are essentially banning UK visitors. I think that’s only going to get worse in the coming days. Also, it looks like travel from non-Schengen countries (eg, US) into Europe will be problematic, with mandatory quarantines put in place by a growing number of countries.
The good news is that my daughter has mostly recovered from Covid. I spoke to her today. She’s still “exhausted,” but no fever, cough is subsiding, and she’s able to eat well.
Great news from your daughter on her recovery.
I agree re wapo. Nyt had a string of odd articles also.
I’m not surprised countries are closing borders but so sorry if your daughter and ex-wife are not able to be together
No SNL audience for tonight.
Harvard University goes to remote learning through late January.
C-19 for 12-19 is ready.